SYP Book Designs in Video form Peer Feedback

The following detail the responses following my request to review the different book designs as videos

Mary Kyd

I just got back from the Cape Palliser Road (complements of StreetWise Google Maps!)  It was sunny and beautiful

I have very much enjoyed reviewing all the different options.  Of the five versions I found #3 the bi-fold to be the strongest presentation to support your photographic essay: the lives of these women and their strength and support that is integral to the Ngawi fishing community.

Reasons and questions:

• It is a creative and successful concept combining images and words to present your case.  I am assuming the phrases on the pages relate to the photographs of the women.
• The physical act requiring the reader to open each bi fold and thereby discovering the women of this community creates a stronger bond between the viewer and your message.
• It is a fun book to look at and read and will increase your audience  e.g. children will love opening the pages and discovering what lies behind.  They will be prompted to ask questions about the women.
• Bi fold images –  I was interested in your choices.  I suspect it is because you need to have a strong horizontal image to support the bi-fold design.  There are images that clearly relate to the location and fishing others I was less clear about their particular connection to Ngawi.  3rd bi-fold – stone face; 4th bi-fold – shadow; 6th bi-fold – grill.
• I see the connections for the pairing of the women’s images except for the pairing of the folded hands and the scale (7th bi-fold) – all the other pairings have a person and object.
• I wasn’t sure if physically splitting an image was distracting as each half of the page did not match up exactly and moved around; however, on balance I don’t think it does as I found the concept so intriguing.  Perhaps in the final production the bi-fold halves will not move as much.
• The Foreword would still apply to the bi-fold version.

Comments on other versions:

Version #1 – no strong connection to your message – the viewer remains detached from the content of the images – they are not reminded of your message as clearly as with the bi-fold version.  I like black and white, but found the images of the women to be drained of life which is not what is alluded to in the Foreword.  The Foreword refers to colour images, but no colour images in this version.

Version #2 – colour – yes!  the women come alive – shows that for such a bleak place – lives are lived.

Version #4 – overlay – An interesting concept, however I found the overlay images confusing.  The style and lines of the overlay images did not meld comfortably with the images below.  I found myself trying to ignore the overlays to see what is below.  I believe this concept could work if the overlay images melded in with the female images below to work as a single image, but when the overlay image is turned you see the full strength of the female image.  Foreword needs to be reworded to support this version.

Version #5 –  Black and white for male and colour for female – I understand your rationale; however, I found this the most confrontational presentation pitting male against female – black and white against colour.  I liked the strong yet gentle approach of the other versions.  Rewording of Foreword to support this version?

Other:

• Will there be a list of photograph details?  Who, what, where etc.?
• Foreword – do not delete what Jim Graydon says about you.  It is a valid comment from Mr. Graydon.   It is in keeping with many Forewords I have read supporting the author or artist.  Accept the praise.  You deserve it.

See you tomorrow,

Mary

Lynda Kuit

OMG! You have done such a ton of work!!! Amazing! For me the winner is the Male bi-fold. I found myself eager to see what you were going to reveal when you opened each bifold. Very well done!! I love that version.

I was quite intrigued by the Male Overlay version, but I think there were a few overlays that were a little difficult to make out and perhaps the placement obscured the underlying image a little too much. The first overlay works brilliantly as you can see more of the underlying image – they almost look integrated somehow. I wonder if the next few (till before your fish lady) would work better if they were flipped horizontally so that the detail doesn’t obscure the lady beneath too much.

My second choice would be Male vs Female. I think the juxtaposing works better here than the overlays.

What paper have you used and is the brown cover one of those clip-in-thingy’s? I think you need to give us a book making workshop please :-)!!

—

Lynda Kuit

lynda512863@oca.ac.uk

Sarah Gallear

I second Lynda’s comments, a lot of work has gone into these, just remember to document it all for your blog as it’s good evidence of your syp. I also liked the bifold book, the activity of opening out the pages engages me more and I think would slow a viewer down in properly looking at and appreciating the work.

My second was the overlay one as I like the reveal but perhaps would be distracted by the opaque layer and holding it and looking through it before looking at the image below.

All look fab though so well done

Sarah

Susan Greenfield

Tremendous amount of work Michelle… very impressive! I really like the bifold, the design really fits your concept, creates a lovely sense of expectation that carries the viewer forward..My second choice is the M v F. I like the idea of overlays but I think some work better than others …some overlays rather obscure the underlying image..reversing the overlay might help so that the overlay image matches the shape of the person underneath better. That said, the bifold works best for me !

Is the Wednesday forum next week ? Would also like to hear about the book making aspect and paper choice !

In the meantime, well done!

Sue

Jonathan Lamb

Wow Michele you certainly get an A+ for effort putting all this together.  It’s a great way of investigating the work really thoroughly.

So for me:

Black and white only: I like B&W, I think the message here is quite subtle and the images are beautiful.  I could imagine getting this as part of an email from photobookstore.co.uk.  It says thoughtful and truthful documentary to me.  But for your purposes I am not sure it is the best one…

Female images only: I can see the point of this as these are really your subjects so you are championing them.  But this was the most straightforward and if I am honest least interesting for me – the most that reminded me of an OCA project as opposed to something beyond that.

Male Bi-fold images: This is the one that struck me as most like a proper artist’s book.  It speaks of handmade object, I really like the physicality of it, the construction itself demonstrates your idea of the female core behind the hard male exterior.  It makes your point in a somewhat obvious way but I think the constructed element permits that.  It is also a way of having a b&w and colour book with a degree of separation.  I might suggest your presented it in a box – you can buy presentation boxes over the internet.  I remember buying a quite expensive book a bit like this from Miho Kajioka and for protection it arrived in one of her tatty old photo paper boxes and that was a bit disappointing.  I think this is my favourite.

Male overlay images:  Also like this one and the idea behind it.  If I did not like the Bi-fold book so much I would go for this one.  This does have one advantage for me in that it makes your point in a more subtle fashion.  I am slightly uncomfortable personally with the whole male vs female thing.  While I am aware of the many arguments I do feel we as a society are in danger of going down a female good male bad political rabbit hole that will not correct the issues it sets out to deal with and may actually exacerbate them.  Having both a son and a daughter I have seen the he is the one that is now discriminated against.  However I realise the situation you are visually highlighting is a real one so enough of my rant!

Male v Female images: This works to make your point but visually there is a very direct clash between colour and black and white and also for the reasons above I prefer either the overlay or especially the bi-fold.

Good luck with putting this forward I guess you most be near that stage now and I hope it goes well for you, that would certainly be deserved!

Jonathan

Judith Bach

What a lot of work you’ve been doing Michelle, looking at the videos is a much better way of assessing the books.

I agree with Jonathan & my favourite is the Male Bifold, it’s just the sort of photo book I’d just love to own myself. Again, Like Matthew my 2nd choice is the Male overlay…the paper you’ve used as an overlay is lovely, out of interest what sort did you use ? Have you considered making a small selection of handmade-books, these would be so unique rather than going for commercial production ?

Matthew suggests a box to present it in, a great idea. My tutor told me to try making a box myself (I haven’t had time to have a go yet). I wonder if this is something you’d attempt ?

Really well done, you must be really happy with what you’ve achieved.

Best wishes, Judy.

Bob Harris

Hi Michele

Not really sure about my response,  I have mixed feelings about the ideas for the books and was unsure whether I should share.    I had an initial impression,  the work was about the women in the community and enjoyed this aspect of the original work.   For me, the women need to be the stand out images with the landscape coming second and maybe the men(and their machines) last.

The book Black and white book lose’s something about the richness of their lives. I also feel some of the images could be spread over two pages if we had a lay flat book.

The female images only worked better in colour but the layout is very static, you expected the image in the middle of the page and it was.  I felt the layout was predictable, maybe a change of sizes and position would help the eye explore the page.  Using size to denote the important images maybe an option.

The male bi-fold book reminded me of opening a box to see inside,  there was some excitement about what I was going to see, the black and white images worked well as a cover with the main images behind being in colour.  Still not sure if I like both pages folding out, there seems a lot of negative space around the pages as well as the images.  I like the concept but wonder if the reader would open both pages together, they might move from the left page to the right page in turn and the desired effect is lost.  The surprise is now half-covered by half an image.  Have you looked at using a trifold instead of the four-page layout, it may direct the reader to read the images how you want them to.   Please just ignore me if I am talking rubbish.  The concept is unique and feels very arty, something I like.  For me the most creative of the books that promote the women of the place.

The Male overlays are also a great concept, the merging of the landscape and colour portraits works really well, they kind of set the scene and add something to the story, I feel the other black and white images(non-landscape) do not support the next image or added to the story.  This may be due to the clarity of the video and a closer inspection would give a better impression.   2nd choice for me.

The final book again is very linear and works well, the selection of images matches very well together, my personal favourite is the hands and the barbed wire.

Thank you for sharing the work, I hope I can meet the standard of what you do Michele, I would be happy with any of the books, it looks like you have a difficult choice, it would be interesting to know what non-academics think of the books, looking forward to seeing the final book. Happy selection.

Regards

Robert

Holly Woodward

A huge amount of work has gone into this, Michele. Respect! I am with the others on thinking the male bi-fold is the way to go. I like the way that the womens’ work is hidden inside the more obvious male activities, and the act of opening each set off pages makes a treat of finding out what is inside.

The concept of the overlays is lovely and they are beautiful, but the meaning of the bi-folds is clearer.

Looking forward to seeing the final version.

Holly

PS I would try reducing the size of the typeface throughout. It looks a little clunky to me.

Neil Gallacher

What a great example of hard work Michele.

I remember the photographs you shared with us and it’s so nice to see them in book form nice to see the women having a voice through your work.

My preferences are for the male bi-fold and the revealing way the women of the community are presented to the viewer. I have seen this before but not done this way as it was more of a single page that opened out. This way is like a door opening to reveal what’s behind and inside rather than an extension and is preferrable. I also liked the contrast of the colour image being revealed.

I also liked the male overlay images as it makes a statement about roles typical of this type of community that even in today’s age is still evident.

I liked the suggestion of presenting the book in a box. It is really appealing and adds an almost luxurious feel to the whole package. I would like to see a box made from or resembling something from the area and subject concerned.

There is nothing wrong with the other books but if I had to grade them it would be male bi-fold, male overlay, black and white, female only, male v female but that is my preference and not necessarily an objective view.

Wishing you all the best with this monumental effort. It is certainly something to be proud of and something I would aspire to.

Neil

Linda Jarrett

Hi Michele

Sorry to be late to the party on this one, but have been busy harvesting and pressing the olives over the past couple of weeks.

I was hoping to come to the Focus Live on Thursday morning to provide some feedback, but it clashes with my 3.1 Group so unfortunately I will not be able to come.

I have however watched the videos and here are a few of my comments.

Black and White only – The images are good, but not sure it really tells the story of the women. I find the layout to be very traditional documentary style, which may have been your aim, but I would prefer something not quite so traditional that would draw me in (but that’s just my opinion). At the moment it is indistinguishable from many other photobooks. I feel that the forward text is too big and needs a lot more white space around it (it doesn’t have to fill the whole page), it might also look better starting on the right hand page.

Female only – Again the layout is very traditional and I think that it would look better if it had a layout that was more original (different sizes, some white space, double spreads, a gatefold or two). Forward text as before.

Bifold – This is the strongest of your layouts. It is more engaging and non- traditional. It appears a bit clunky at the moment and the pictures are not always aligning, but I believe this will be sorted with the final print. Forward text as before.

Male overlay images – I like the paper for the overlay and contrasts well with the other paper in the book. However I find that each image is fighting for its own space. Forward text as before.

Male v female images – It’s an interesting idea having the two images (male and female) facing and the fact that the monochrome represents the male and the softer colour the female, but the layout is the same throughout the book. It would be more interesting if the pattern was broken intermittently, perhaps with a single image, some white space or maybe some text. Forward text as with the other books.

I note that somebody had said about putting the book in a box, which I agree is a good idea. You could even make the book part of a box. You could also make the box yourself, it is not as difficult as it looks.

I hope that helps,

Linda J

Nicola South

Anna Sellen

Hi Michele

You’ve done a huge amount fo work on this project and I am so impressed with your tenacity and determination – well done! In fact, your determination is akin that of your beautiful ladies. Do not let anyone put you off or sway you away from finishing this amazing project – you are almost there Michele!

Some comments below, in case they are useful but disregard if they are not and go with your instinct and your gut feelings! 

I’d try and go for the design that fits with your work most closely conceptually. I know this is always hard to do so my empathy on the frustrations along the journey. The way I see it is that your designs have more than one element of conceptual fit between them – you just need to decide which one(s) is/are more important for what you are trying to say. I tried to focus on these conceptual elements in my comments below.

B&W version – the images look impressive in black and white (if you don’t see them in any other interpretation) but then I had the luxury of seeing them develop and grow in colour…So for this version I had two questions: 1) if the Intro describes the contrast between the b&w and colour but the images are only b&w, this message is kind of lost?; 2) how does the black and white help to deliver your key message?

Female only – without the text and surroundings that provide the context, it does not work for me

Male vs Female – I feel the b&w images are too contained, i..e same size as the colour images of the women, there is no separation and no sense of the place impacting on their lives – all too measured and too predictable. Need to throw in the harshness and throw out predictability for it to work.

Male overlay – I like how you set the scene with a larger landscape image. I found the overlays quite distracting and in places even clashing with the images of women, e.g. the second pair. The idea is interesting and conceptually could work really well (male and female overlaying – power, control, domination, voice) but you will need to make sure that each pair of images work and speak to one another. At the moment, there is only the first pair that is a great match, the rest of them are not complementing one another. A question about the text placement: it is interesting that you placed the text underneath the overplayed images – were the messages formed mostly by male members of the community – are these male-dominating messages that put the women ‘inside the shel’ so to speak? If so, it is an important element to show. I really like the translations at the back, not in the text. I think this makes the message stronger (if it is indeed a part of the message!).

Male bifold – I enjoyed watching you unfold and split the landscapes to reveal what is inside the shell. The black and white images you’ve chosen fit much more and I think the messages conceptually fit much better. I am not sure about the translations and where best to position them. Have you tried to place them at the back as in your ole overlay version? I wondered if this would work here. The language then becomes  a symbol making the viewer wonder at the meanings.

I still wonder how practical it is to have so many bifold pages in one book – it’s one thing to watch you open them but if I have to do it myself, how does it feel? It is an important question and I cannot answer it without trying, I wonder if you could ask some neutral people to leaf through the book and see how having to unfold so many pages affects their experience of the book? If it is too tiring and distracting, how about limit the number of bifold pages so they are more of a surprise than an expectation?

I hope some of these ideas help you Michele. It is a wonderful, rich project and I love see it develop so well. Don’t worry about the tutor’s feedback if you feel strongly things are developing the way you want them – it is your work after all, not theirs!

Good luck – you are so close to the finishing line!

Anna

Anna Sellen

anna507277@oca.ac.uk